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Post by boiler on Oct 22, 2003 11:14:36 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be nice if the IHSAA and their eligibility rules would be progressive and forward thinking by holding the respective sport and coach responsible in addition to the student/athlete for a student/athlete failing and becoming ineligible.
Case in point......a Fall student/athlete plays all if not almost all their entire season then their grades come out. Now if they are ineligible for the Winter sports season some winter coaches provide training or academic tables to restore the student/athlete's eligibility for a very short period.
Same scenario can be played out for Winter student/athletes becoming ineligible for the Spring sports and Spring through Summer into the Fall.
IMHO you would think the sport and coach the student athlete becomes ineligible would bear more if not all of the responsibility not the next one!
Simple adjustment would be all freshmen would be eligibe their entire year and the respective sport would lose their services the next season !
Only Seniors and student/athletes not participating iin a sport the previous sport season would have the current system apply.
WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THIS...... AM I IN A DREAM WORLD TO HOLD THE APPROPRIATE SPORT MORE RESPONSIBLE?
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Post by hoopscoach41 on Oct 22, 2003 11:22:16 GMT -5
I think that would be a perfect situation for coaches that have a system down to help with students struggling with academics. But the reason this is done is to get the student back on track academically. If they student has to sit out of part or all of a sport, then maybe they will put more effort into their school work because they are missing out. This stinks as a coach when you lose a player, but in the long run academics are far more important than sports.
But another point. I think it should be mandatory for coaches to check grades every so often to see how the athletes are doing. Then if the student is struggling, it should be their responsiblity to get the athlete back on track.
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Post by boiler on Oct 22, 2003 12:21:23 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more but I am just proposing that the respective sport shoulder more responsible.
Yes I am giving the student/athlete a free ride their freshman year but they and their sport would be held responsible after that.
I view it as long term versus the quick fix approach... fail the fall lose the next fall! To me it would stay with the student/athlete and the respective coach longer and better than the current system! Once again JMHO!
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Southern Man
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Post by Southern Man on Oct 22, 2003 12:57:02 GMT -5
Most schools/coaches do keep track of grades, provides round tables,... however, it is up to the parents and the players to take care of business. The coach should help not bare the burden. ;D
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Post by boiler on Oct 22, 2003 13:07:54 GMT -5
Either you are missing my point or I am missing yours Southern Man.... right now the parents and student/athletes ARE sharing their responsibility for becoming eligible but the WRONG coach or sport takes the brunt of the hit also! That is what I was hoping a different rule would do!
Coaches control alot of the time of an student/athlete and while the colleges have begun to limit that time HS coaches have absolutely no limits to the amount of practice in a given day, week or month, with the Sunday exception, all that may contribute to the failing grades!
If I read and understood your response incorrectly please excuse me!
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Post by BIRDMAN on Oct 22, 2003 14:42:52 GMT -5
It sounds good in theory, but, especially with girls, you never know when they are going to decide to not play a sport. If they play VB one year, and are not academically eligable at the end of the year, and your idea is to have them ineligable for the next falls sport, what do you do if they for whatever reason decide not to play, and they want to participate in a winter sport. In this situation with your idea the player would never be penalized for poor grades. This is not the way to go about it. Under the current system I am routinly checking my kids grades in the fall (out of season for bball) but if they are struggling, we find a way to help them. There needs to be a situation in place where all of the coaches are working together for the good of all kids, and not just worrying about their kids in their season.
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Southern Man
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Post by Southern Man on Oct 22, 2003 14:53:01 GMT -5
The school will need to cordinate keeping track of grades. The coach in season can only do so much. If all the coaches will work together with the school cordinating things will be better. We work well together here at Boonville High School, yet we still have some grade problems. As long as the coach is making an effort to help that is all that can be expected. It should be the reponsibility of the AD to keep the coaches in line, not the state.
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CIC
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Post by CIC on Oct 22, 2003 16:31:04 GMT -5
Sorry Boiler but I can't agree with your idea either. I just think a student and their parents have to take responsibility for grades. In my opinion, a coach has ZERO responsibility for grades unless a student/athlete specifically asks for help. Parents are the ones who need to keep track. Not coaches, not ADs, not administrators. Parents and students - PERIOD!
Just my opinion!!
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Post by Badgerguy on Oct 22, 2003 22:28:38 GMT -5
I also agree with CIC and Southern Man. Parents and kid are responsible for academics. If coaches choose to get involved, great....but in my humble opinion, it is not the coaches responsibility.
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Post by jmd on Oct 22, 2003 23:05:33 GMT -5
I disagree with Boiler's proposal as well. I also feel like it is the responsibility of the student & parents. The unfortunate fact is that some (not all) parents do not do a good job of monitoring grades & if I lose a player b/c of grades that has a negative effect on my program. So, even though it may not be the responsibility of the coach, I think that it is extremely important for a coach to monitor grades.
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Post by boiler on Oct 23, 2003 6:44:23 GMT -5
Thank you all for the input, I thought this might provoke some responses but I NEVER expected to hear that some coaches feel they have NO RESPONSIBILITY for the grades of the players in their program since you control almost half of their free time after school ends daily!
You certainly have your right to your opinion but I cannot agree with any coach who would feel that way about THEIR program and THEIR players! I for one feel coaches should shoulder more of the responsibility, reward or blame but hey that's just me and maybe I care more about different things!
Thanks again for your input!
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CIC
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Post by CIC on Oct 23, 2003 9:03:28 GMT -5
Boiler, not to labor the point but I would argue that the coach does NOT control his players' free time. The player is the one who made the decision to play a sport. Once that decision was made, she needs to take the responsibility to maintain her grades to continue pursuing the extracurricular activity she chose. Her parents, in turn, have supported her decision to pursue that activity by giving her permission to play. In my opinion, it's THEIR job to put academics first and ensure that her decision to play a sport has not compromised her ability to maintain a certain academic standard.
Again, I don't mean to get on a soapbox but this is a small example of what I truly believe ails our society as a whole. Too many people expect teachers, administrators, coaches, ADs, etc. to take on the responsibility that should be held by parents and, if they're old enough, by the student. Being a parent is the most challenging task a person can take on. Unfortunately, too many people aren't willing to step up to that challenge and want to push the responsibilities off on someone else. I'm sorry but I don't buy it. If my kid isn't doing well in school, that's not the coaches fault. It's MINE. I should have done a better job of keeping track of my kid's schoolwork and addressed the issue before it became a problem.
Yes, I understand that I'm talking about an ideal and that reality is often different. I'm sure many coaches try to help kids that don't get solid guidance/support from their parents by helping them maintain their grades. That's great that those coaches are willing to make the effort but I simply don't feel that it should be their responsibility.
Just my opinion!! :-)
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Post by 2daHoop on Oct 23, 2003 9:09:05 GMT -5
Should students having that much trouble with school work (bordering on academic ineligibility) even be trying to play 2 consecutive sports, probably with overlapping seasons?
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Post by boiler on Oct 23, 2003 12:04:03 GMT -5
Keepin in line with the majority of the thoughts on this trend should we then remove the coaches names from the IBCA and ICGSA All-Academic All-State teams and replace them with the parents names of the players since most of you believe the coaches has nothing to do with failure so why you they anything to do with their success?
Very Interesting responses and opinions!
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Post by jmd on Oct 23, 2003 13:49:04 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has said that coaches have nothing to do with the failure of students, Boiler. The main responsibility is of the parents & student. However, the coach, if he/she cares about his/her program, should monitor grades of his players. I myself, do not care if my name is listed on the ICGSA or IBCA list of academic all-state or not.
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Southern Man
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Post by Southern Man on Oct 23, 2003 14:40:11 GMT -5
To Boiler, The utlimate responsibility of a student's grade rests with the student first, parents second, and third with the school officials. A good coach/program will try to help the students. I never lost a basketball player in 17 years and I credit parents for that, however, I have lost a couple of football players every season and, in some cases, it is the same family that had a daughter in basketball. Same parents, same coach with the same philosophy, different kids... who is blame? I will direct you to the first statement that I made above. You can't be a coach or a teacher or you would understand and not make rash statements AND if you are a parent that had a daughter or son that had grade problems go look in the mirror to find someone to blame.
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Post by MichCityCoach on Oct 23, 2003 20:03:08 GMT -5
[shadow=grey,left,300] Hello All,
To say the least I am intrigued by the thoughts expressed within this thread. As a father and a coach I felt compelled to add my thoughts. While as a coach I hate to see any player lose eligibility due to grades, but as a coach we must see the "big picture". Most coach's will most likely never have the chance to coach a future WNBA or college Allstar. But as a father we should most certainly have the chance to see our children clutching a degree from college. As a coach at times we may feel our "program" is bigger than the school we represent, but the truth is the "program" is just an extension of the school. So we should always focus on academics first. And the reality is that the student, and the parent must be responsible for the academic performance at all times. I do believe that as a coach I am willing to help in some situations such as seeking out tutoring available through the school, but I would hope that the parents would see this need before I would as a coach. While we always feel the pressure to succeed as coach's, the real success is seeing our players go on to higher education and possibly even continue their playing careers and knowing we did what was right for them as well.
Just my humble opinion?
[/shadow]
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Post by MichCityCoach on Oct 23, 2003 20:05:00 GMT -5
Not Sure What Happened To My Earlier Attempt?
Hello All,
To say the least I am intrigued by the thoughts expressed within this thread. As a father and a coach I felt compelled to add my thoughts. While as a coach I hate to see any player lose eligibility due to grades, but as a coach we must see the "big picture". Most coach's will most likely never have the chance to coach a future WNBA or college Allstar. But as a father we should most certainly have the chance to see our children clutching a degree from college. As a coach at times we may feel our "program" is bigger than the school we represent, but the truth is the "program" is just an extension of the school. So we should always focus on academics first. And the reality is that the student, and the parent must be responsible for the academic performance at all times. I do believe that as a coach I am willing to help in some situations such as seeking out tutoring available through the school, but I would hope that the parents would see this need before I would as a coach. While we always feel the pressure to succeed as coach's, the real success is seeing our players go on to higher education and possibly even continue their playing careers and knowing we did what was right for them as well.
Just my humble opinion?
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CIC
Leading Scorer
Posts: 102
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Post by CIC on Oct 24, 2003 8:32:03 GMT -5
Boiler, in response to your question about the IBCA and ICGSA Academic teams - yes, I believe a coach should NOT have their name listed along with the player. In fact, until you brought up the question, the idea of giving the coach any credit for a player being selected to that team never crossed my mind. Other than nominating them, I don't think most coaches have anything to do with those kids being academically successful. Being selected to a team like that means that the player has acheived a level of success that stems from a high level of personal drive, strong parental involvement and some God-given ability. These are the generally the kind of kids that coaches never have to worry about. Coaching these kinds of kids is a pleasure and a priviledge!
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Post by wgbbfan on Nov 4, 2003 10:07:54 GMT -5
Players,parents and Coaches should share the responsibility of grades. But first in line should be players and parents.I as a parent have no one to blame but myself if my daughters fail in school. Academics first then sports.
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