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Post by ExcelHSports on Mar 14, 2010 10:13:51 GMT -5
Yesterday a boys high school team played a player who is academically ineligible today. It appears everyone knew it and the school still played him. What kind of message does this send?
Steven Stremming Excel High School Sports
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Post by spaldy on Mar 15, 2010 11:31:46 GMT -5
This is actually one of the simpler things a Principal and AD have to decide on. They should verify if that coach knew the player was ineligible or not. If they determine that they did know they should be fired on the spot.
If not, then they need to work toward implementing a process where the coach is kept in the loop on grades.
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Post by indyyjr2 on Mar 15, 2010 11:35:09 GMT -5
Is the team still alive?!?....When did the player become ineligibler...Monday, after the regional?
It was a disservice to the kid if he played and knew he was going to lose his eligibility.....not to mention, it was a disservice to fair play for any opposing school that may have lost to that team...
I feel sorry for the kid, but he made his own bed there to lose eligibility....but I feel worse if his team is still alive at the expense of another team getting eliminated.
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Post by ExcelHSports on Mar 15, 2010 12:00:24 GMT -5
The regional was held on Saturday and the player according to all account was to be ineligible this week.
Steven Stremming Excel High School Sports
I agree a awful gray area. The coach did nothing wrong according to the rules by playing him but did the school send the wrong message.......a basketball game is more important than a education.
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Post by bruinbball on Mar 15, 2010 13:29:22 GMT -5
Had I been this kids coach, I think I would have had to sit him. Yes, I know there is pressure facing these coaches to win and especially vs. the team they beat in the morning session. However, if the coach fully was aware of the situation, IMO, he had a responsibility to sit that kid. That kid let the team down, not the coach. It would have been engrained in those players that they are responsible for their actions and their actions can/will effect the team.
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Post by ExcelHSports on Mar 15, 2010 15:17:11 GMT -5
Just talked to a reliable source who told me the player, the teacher, the parents and others are having a meeting on Tuesday to discuss the situation. Apparently, the reliable source told me that the player has a incomplete in a course. I was orginally told on a phone call that he was soon to be ineligible and was played. I guess we will see.
Steven Stremming Excel High School Sports
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Post by observer06 on Mar 15, 2010 15:29:04 GMT -5
This happened to the team I played on when I was in high school, so unless things have changed (which is possible, it's been awhile), here was the deal. The IHSAA at that time allowed a two week grace period after the initial ineligible ruling. It allowed for the school to go back and check to make sure that there had been no errors, that the player hadn't been accidentally ruled ineligible, and so on. During the process, the player is still eligible. In our case, the grade was correct, our point guard was given the heave-ho, but had played three additional games in the meantime.
For our grading period, that meant the PG left the team at the start of February. If a school has a different calendar year, perhaps the grading period was done two weeks back and the player has been playing during sectionals and regionals during the appeal process. In that case (and again, assuming the rules haven't changed), perfectly legal.
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Post by ExcelHSports on Mar 16, 2010 10:01:32 GMT -5
observer06,
perfectly legal correct but what does this say about a school or school sytems that might value a game more than a education? and whom do we fault for letting a situation in any school with a student/athlete get this far?
Steven Stremming Excel High School Sports
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Post by andone on Mar 16, 2010 11:05:32 GMT -5
Where are the parents? If my child was struggling in the class room the last thing I would care about is if he / she got to play in one more game. I would be in constant communication with his/her teacher long before the situation got to this point. My daughters team made each player turn in grade sheets every week if they had a D or lower in any class. With todays "on-line" access to grades, attendance and the ability to quickly email teachers, there is no reason that there should be a gray area of "play or not play"!!!!! Plain and simple that young man should have been held out once the grade dropped below minimum standards, by his parents not the school / coach. Instead of practice he should have been in tudoring sessions. I'm raising my child with his/her next 40 years in mind, not the 4 years of athletics in high school.
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Post by ruserious on Mar 17, 2010 9:43:16 GMT -5
Steve,
While monitoring grades, at what point does a coach sit a player for academics? When they actually become ineligible, the day before, or maybe a month before. What criteria to use? The IHSAA, or some other?
Seems to me that there is a rule in place set by the IHSAA for academics. No rule was broken but we are trying to make something out of nothing. If a rule was broken it is a different story.
I understand your point but what is the coach or school to do? Say sorry you become ineligible next week therefore you cannot play tonight? The academic rule did not state the player was not able to play Saturday.
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Post by ExcelHSports on Mar 17, 2010 11:18:35 GMT -5
ruserious,
I guess from my viewpoint if a student/athlete drops below a C into the D area. You sit the student/athlete and you get them the remedial help they need in order to improve their performance in the classroom. In my opinion I don't think a game is more important than the student/athletes education. Everyone can have their own opinion on when do you stop playing the student/athlete........I guess it comes down to what does one value the education or a game. If you lose a game and get fired from coaching because of doing the right thing at least I could sleep well at night.
Steven Stremming Excel High School Sports
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griz
Leading Scorer
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Post by griz on Mar 17, 2010 12:08:00 GMT -5
Steve,
Last time I checked a D was a passing grade. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought a player was only ineligible if you are NOT PASSING (meaning do not have a D or above) in 70% or more of their classes.
You can get all Ds and be eligible.
It depends on the student. If the student is capable of doing much better and is slacking off big time, then you sit them down.
If the student is trying as hard as he can or at least doing a significant amount of work and is only pulling Ds in tough classes for him - then what would you do?
How about if a kid has been forced to miss some school time due to illness or some other legit problem and their grades are down?
I think each situation has to be evaluated separately when the player is technically eligible but is close to not being eligible.
There is no way we can know about a specific situation from sitting here and with privacy laws and ettiquette, I don't think it's really any of our business
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Post by ExcelHSports on Mar 17, 2010 12:12:59 GMT -5
Everyone can have their own opinion and that is just mine. There are always extenuating circumstances and you have to figure them in somewhere I am just saying from where i stand on it the student's education comes before any game of any kind. Probably alot of my feelings are from the fact my daughter was a A and B student in school and graduated college, the Lord blessed my ex and I and we really didn't have to deal with education issues. We made sure she was still being educated at home when she wasn't in a school setting during the school year, kept in contact with teachers during the school year plus the fact she came to us with any problems she had and if we didn't have the answers we would try to find someone who could help.
Steven Stremming Excel High School Sports
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Post by Ice on Mar 17, 2010 13:32:35 GMT -5
i coached in a school system a few years ago and set a rule that a certain grade was required in each class to stay on the team. the athletic director told me our team could not be held to a higher standard than a normal student. so if the player was eligible by school rules, i couldn't change it so that the player had a higher academic requirement to stay on the team, nor could i not play a player in practice or in a game due to any change of requirements that i had set which was different that that which was placed by the school on a normal student.
Example being, Student plays as long as five classes are passing, and I say you have to have a C in all classes to participate with the team, then i'm in violation of school rules. Personally, if you are not maintaining a C in all classes you don't belong anywhere near a court.
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Post by ExcelHSports on Mar 17, 2010 14:42:03 GMT -5
okay then ice and ruserious, I understand both of your eloquently stated positions. But then what your saying is a version of win at the cost we want you to win at or play at the price we say you can play, correct? or am I reading you wrong. I am saying parents, school systems and teachers (coaches included in this grouping) have a obligation (choose another word if you wish here) to put the preferencce on education not sports. Europe doesn't have high school or secondary sports those are club related activities and no I am not saying we should only have club ball, imagine that....yikes.........I am just again saying let's raise expectations instead of just getting by. I want my kids, our kids to be more functional than our Congress.
Steven Stremming Excel High School Sports
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Post by northview on Mar 17, 2010 14:52:12 GMT -5
I want my kids, our kids to be more functional than our Congress. Steven Stremming Excel High School Sports No problem - once they become potty trained they meet that criteria.
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prep82
Leading Scorer
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Post by prep82 on Mar 17, 2010 22:12:09 GMT -5
Really a question here ? Student athlete should be the term that should define this situation. I know the inconvenience to the team, school etc., however, what is the character of the coach , the school, the parents, to let this happen ? What if you are the next guy off the bench that did your school work to the proper level ? What message is sent to those that are doing things the right way ....the wrong way ? If one high school game is the end all, then the future may be dim. Seems to be a lack of true character here. Bad example for all, especially the kid that played. What can he get away with next ? JMO
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Post by Ice on Mar 18, 2010 15:54:42 GMT -5
School requires pass five classes to be eligible. I attempted to require student has over C grade in all classes to stay on the team. Athletic Director informed me to remain coach I couldn't impose the C requirement.
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Post by ExcelHSports on Mar 19, 2010 14:43:08 GMT -5
Just got a message from Tom Finicle the Athletic Director at Southwood High School. I asked him if the student/athlete who has been in the news will be participating tomorrow. Tom wrote back, "Mr. Stremming, Southwood H.S. does not release the academic progress or grades of any our student to the media. Thanks for your understanding and your support of high school sports." Tom Finicle AD
So we will wait and see tomorrow.
Steven Stremming Excel High School Sports
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Post by ruserious on Mar 19, 2010 16:00:00 GMT -5
Steve & All,
I am replying to several posts with this. Here is all I am saying.
Kids should be made aware of the rules, academic or otherwise. Steve, you stated your D requirement which is fine if you are a coach and make the rule known and apply it evenly and fairly. No problem.
All I ever did was post that the rules were followed. If the team a rule otherwise that stated once it became known that a student fell below a specific GPA then they can't play then the kid should not play.
Having rules and not sharing them with the kids or selectively enforcing them will create more headaches for a coach than what we were originally were talking about.
You never asked my opinion on playing and academic requirements, you simply posted something and asked for opinions about it. I gave it based on the information you provided.
I am 100% in favor of rules, even more strict rules for student athletes. I would always hesitate to base anything I would do off a rule that originates from the IHSAA. Their rules are not conveyed very well and they are selectively enforced. Some because of the nature of the process and others because they just want to or think they know best.
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